I've been skiing at Devil's Thumb for the last 6 year. The two years previous to this one, I had a season pass, and I skied there almost exclusively. The place has amazing trails and tons of them. It's hard to get bored there due to extensive trail system, and a lot of those trails are extremely challenging.
Begin Rant:
I've been having an internal debate of whether or not I should post my recent feelings of this place on my blog. I couldn't decide if I was just being a whiny little bitch or if I had a legitimate complaint. Honestly, it's a little bit of both.
This year (and some of last year) the grooming there has been sub-par. Even when you hit the freshly groomed trails, they are extremely soft and you sink quite a bit in the snow. If you know anything about skate skiing, fresh and soft snow isn't necessarily your friend like it is with alpine skiing.
From my six years of skiing there, I can tell you that this is not the norm. When I first started skiing at Devil's Thumb, the lodge was a little shack, and they also had a small building with some lodging. It was really quaint. Two or so years ago, someone bought the place, and now this person or persons is turning it into a high end destination resort. I don't have a problem with what they are now trying to accomplish. In fact, it has made some of the facilities much nicer. I guess a good way to describe it is that they are going for the Vail for cross country ski areas. I'm not sure it's the best business model, but they probably know something I don't.
So back to my complaint. Their attention to the trail system has seriously degraded over the last two years. I often go skate skiing in a multitude of places and the conditions are great. If you do any kind of skiing (or even cycling), you have those days were everything clicks. The conditions and the way you feel just get magically intertwined and the endorphins rush through your body. This is not and should not be a rare event. It hasn't happened once in my six trips this year to Devil's Thumb. This is exclusively the results of poor grooming.
I'll be the first to acknowledge that I don't know jack about grooming, however due to my growing frustration with Devil's Thumb, I've been skiing at Snow Mountain Ranch more. Snow Mountain Ranch is 10 minutes down the road, and the three times I've been there this year, their trails have been pristine. They were freshly groomed and nicely packed. I do understand that you can over-groom trails. I also understand that Devil's Thumb has a large amount of trail to cover, but I would be happy if a third of their system got the treatment that Snow Mountain Ranch gives their trails If Devil's Thumb is trying to achieve the status of THE premiere nordic destination and if their prices are starting to reflect that, I would think that their trail conditions should also measure up to that status. Quite simply they don't. The conditions where better when they were a tiny operation.
I'm really not sure what these people are trying to accomplish. If they are shifting their focus away from the skiing and toward their other amenities, I can't really fault them for that. I'm sure they have a vision of what they are trying to create, but it is starting show in more than just the trail conditions. Their customer service is on the decline too. I went to the Frisco Nordic Center last weekend, and I almost thought I was some top ranked Euro skiing superstar. The folks there were bending over backwards for me.
These aren't my only complaints. I have had a number of issues with them this year. I won't get into all of that. I'll just say yesterday's conditions where the straw that broke the camel's back. I can get a multi-day punch card for Snow Mountain Ranch at a much lower per day price than what Devil's Thumb currently offers. Next year, that's where I'll be spending most of my days.
Here are the sites of the nordic centers I mentioned:
www.devilsthumbranch.com
http://www.ymcarockies.org/page.php?code=74
http://www.breckenridgenordic.com/frisco_center.html
PS Snow Mountain Ranch updates their conditions on their site daily. Devil's Thumb does it sporadically.
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4 comments:
My husband and I purchased Devils Thumb Ranch six years ago. We appreciate the feedback that you conveyed on your blog, as we are always looking for ways to improve the Ranch as a whole, and, in particular, the cross country skiing experience for our day and overnight visitors.
When we purchased DTR six years ago, it was starting to show the years of challenging times faced by the Ranch during the late 1980's and 1990s. Though developers had planned to purchase DTR's 400 acres and turn it into a condominium resort, we purchased DTR and the adjacent 3400 acres where most of the trails sat and with the goal of preserving one of the last few mountain based experiences that had not been crowded out by growth or development.
Over the past six years we have done our best to improve the cross country skiing experience for our day and overnight guests. We have invested in expanding and diversifying our trail system, invested in new grooming equipment, built a new cross country ski shop as well as built a day lodge to ensure there was space for day guests to rest and eat. In addition, we built a yurt mid-trail system so skiers would have a scenic spot to warm themselves or take a break.
While our trail quality has been praised by most over the past six years, (we have been rated as one of the top 10 nordic ski centers in North America by a variety of skiing sources over the past five seasons (2003-2007)), over the past two years we have had our challenges primarily due to managing the pine beetle problem facing all of Grand County.
In order to stop the beetles from completely devestating our 4,000 acres of forest as well as mitigate the chance of forest fires, we have been practicing sound land management principles involving the thinning and logging of our forests. We have actually purchased our own logging equipment and have hired two full time loggers to manage the pine beetle kill and stay one step ahead of the problem wherever possible.
In some areas of our 100 +km of trails, this thinning can create a different path of wind in an area which may have been historically sheltered by tree coverage. In addition, the equipment needed to continue this forest management can impact the trails in some areas.
Our skiing staff has ongoing information as to where the most recent areas of forest management are taking place and can steer our guests to the less impacted trails. With 100+ km of trails compared to the smaller trail systems in all other Colorado nordic centers (other than Snow Mountain Ranch), even with our beetle kill maintenance program, we have plenty of great skiing at the Ranch.
Again, we thank you for your feedback. We are doing what we can to ensure that DTR maintains its great cross country skiing reputation as well as ensure that our guest experience remains intimate, recreation based and environmentally friendly.
If you have any other comments or suggestions, you can e mail me directly at scfanch@yahoo.com. With much appreciation----
I forgot to mention that I disagree that our prices have increased dramatically and that Snow Mountain Ranch is much cheaper than our experience. In fact, we are $5 less expensive than Snow Mountain Ranch for weekday skiing ($10 vs $15) and are only $2 higher on the weekends ($15 vs $13). Also, our season pass rates are only $15 higher than Snow Mountain Ranch ($200 vs $185).
In addition, we are not looking for a Vail experience----we feel that most of the mountain properties around Colorado have already used that formula and we do not find it a unique, interesting or intimate experience.
Lastly, I'd love for you to contact me directly so we can hear about the experiences you decided not to include in your blog. We are always looking for ways to improve our property. Again, my e mail address is scfanch@yahoo.com
Alan,
To accuse Devils Thumb Ranch of having sub-par grooming is far from the truth.
To say that their attention to the trail system has seriously degraded is ridiculous.
If anything, the commitment coinciding with the new ownership has greatly improved.
The purchase of new snowmobiles, snowcat, and state of the art facilities speaks for itself. Not to mention hosting the International Spring Series for two consecutive years.
To start, it has been a blessing that for the past couple of seasons we have had great snow. In conjunction, the past couple seasons have brought along substantial winds, not to mention the more exposed terrain due to logging.
Nordic skiers understand and enjoy the fact that the trails are different everyday. Skiing takes place outdoors, not in a gymnasium. The full experience involves the body and mind connection and isn't a tread-mile workout. Ski selection, discipline, technique, waxing, etc., are all part of the equation.
For not knowing 'jack' about grooming, maybe you should ask for advice and get your facts straight before “whining.” This is what burden’s the sports image more than enhancing it.
We all know that there is nothing we can do to manage the weather. In Nordic skiing, we do what we can with what we have. Grooming is often a reaction, and we respond accordingly to what the weather gives us. Sometimes this means grooming late, early, or all day.
In comparison to the multitude of other places you may ski at, Devils Thumb has two snowcats in which they groom 100k. with four staff. (f.y.i.the YMCA has one snowcat, as well as most others) DTR grooms every trail at least every other day depending on conditions, and most 'high-use' trails are sometimes groomed 2-3 times a day especially on weekends due to overlapping. Repetition is not being sacrificed.
Ultimately, most dedicated skiers understand that when conditions are soft it lends itself to optimal 'classic' skiing days with perfect tracks and blue kick wax.
This is a basic rule of thumb. Furthermore, soft snow IS your friend. For those that only 'skate ski', maybe you should try it or then again just stick with alpine.
If anything, we should all be grateful for having snow. (Unlike most other centers around the country that don’t have snow!) And appreciate it!
Was it really that bad?
Finally, as compared to your handful of times skiing, I ski almost everyday.
How can you consider your opinion to be valid?
I've been to many other nordic centers and love them all individually for their differences. However, I wouldn't prefer to ski anywhere else even if it is less expensive. Afterall, you get what you pay for.
Speaking for Nordic professionals as a whole, we work within it because we appreciate the sport and lifestyle. It’s not about the money, because we don't get paid enough!
See you on the trails, or maybe not.
Hope this addresses the issues you wrote about.
Who are you? You come to my blog and tell me my opinion is not valid, but you don't state your name. Give me a break.
The owners had better class than you in their statements.
I based my opinion on the current state of the trail system by skiing at Devil's Thumb for the last six years. Just because you have skied more than me doesn't make my opinion not valid. After all, I am the customer. I'm not the only one that has noticed the lack of attention to the trails, so maybe this is a bit of a wake up call.
One of the last times I skied there, Black 10 was the "groomer's choice." Well the groomer's choice had about 1k that wasn't groomed. the rest of the k was soft. You're right, I just skate ski, but when you groom trails for skate skiers (it is a growing segment of the sport) those trails should be enjoyable. The soft snow isn't enjoyable every time out. That is what I experienced at Devil's Thumb this year. Even on days where there wasn't a significant snowfall within several days of my visit, the trails would still be soft.
Also, the last time I was there, the entire section of Lactic Grande, South Fork, Double Poll, Disco, Inferno, and Priceless were not groomed at all and there were several inches of snow on the trails. That's what? A solid 15 to 20k? I've done my share of skiing in fresh, ungroomed snow, but that was a bit much considering my previous visits there.
Customer service: My first issue this year was the season pass. I usually make it up the first weekend in December for my first trip of the season. The season pass "early bird" price is usually still available. This year? No. Was this stated on the website? No. In any kind of mailer? No. I, as a previous season pass holder, had no clue that the price was going to jump that much.
Another time, I needed a rivet for my boot. I asked an employee at the ski shop if there were any in stock for purchase. I like this guy, and I've talked with him several times before. His response to my question was, "I don't think so." Did he check? No. Did he offer to check? No. He just looked at me and said again, "I don't think so." I went to Snow Mountain Ranch a couple of weeks later, and they went in the back and looked for a rivet. When they didn't have any, they ordered some.
The waxing facilities are mediocre at best considering the level of nordic center Devil's Thumb is attempting to achieve.
I've skied at several centers. Devil's Thumb, Grand Lake, Frisco, Snow Mountain Ranch, Lone Mountain Ranch, and Bohart Ranch to name some of the top of my head. I have some idea of what I'm talking about. I also did ask someone I know that has worked in the industry about grooming.
From your statements, I could take a guess and say you work at Devil's Thumb. I could definitely be wrong, but for you to work in the industry and tell me as a customer that my opinion is not valid is utterly ridiculous. Why don't you tell me who you are so I can make sure I never ski at your nordic center?
Your comments and attitude are exactly the reason I was hesitant about brining up the topic, and why I would never mention it to those in charge at the ski center. The place reeks of this defensive, elitist mentality.
For what it's worth, I've been alpine skiing no more than 3 times in the last 5 years. Also, I've always been a huge proponent of Devil's Thumb. I've stated those opinions on this blog, and I've encouraged others to go there because I do love the place.
The big question now is: will you identify yourself?
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